@philosophyminis: So many of the conversations we have around #artificialintelligence and #consciousness feature what's called the ‘computational model of the mind.’ This is where we assume that our conscious life is a product of our brain. And, while our #brain is hugely complicated, it essentially runs by rules: the rules of biology and therefore #physics . But in this book ‘The Shadows of the mind’, the Nobel Prize winning Roger #Penrose uses Godel’s Incompleteness Theorem to argue this cannot be right. And I was lucky enough to see him live at HowTheLightGetsIn festival this weekend to revisit his argument. This is the problem: Godel's theorem shows that in any system of logic, there will always be truths that cannot be proven within the system itself. In other words, no matter how powerful a formal system is, it can't account for everything. This applies to computers and algorithms, too. They process data, and they spit out outputs, but they cannot go beyond their programming to discover truths that go beyond their logic. But according to Penrose, the human #mind can do something different. Because, mathematicians can understand things which go beyond formal rules – something that no computer can do on its own. Therefore, Penrose argues that the human mind must work not on a computational or algorithmic basis. So, what is consciousness? Penrose speculates that it may arise from those weird #quantum processes in the brain that go beyond classical computation. If Penrose is right, then consciousness is not just another program in the mind, but it's something much deeper and it's something unknown by modern science, at least at the moment. #AI #quantumphysics #philosophy #IAI
Jonny Thomson
Region: GB
Tuesday 24 September 2024 12:40:20 GMT
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Sean Price :
He's talking about imagination.
2024-09-24 18:16:49
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Karlis.cloud 🇬🇧 🇱🇻 :
mind, brain and everything else arises from consciousness.. not other way around.
2024-09-24 16:59:11
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jumpskyhigh :
There isn’t any reason to think that humans can go beyond the logic that rules us. So there are questions we can’t answer just like a logic system
2024-09-24 18:58:28
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Jim Newman :
Formal systems rely on external support. What that support is depends on the system in question. Not likely to require sui causa. Biologic vs inorganic logic isn’t a barrier nor is quantum logic.
2024-09-24 12:49:13
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pnemmin :
there is no mind only body
2024-09-26 05:25:05
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Yago :
Awesome
2024-09-24 14:15:09
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Dom :
We have the power of enology because we find patterns and similarities in all things, (because this makes storing shared features/properties more efficient), no matter how vague the connection.
2024-09-27 00:21:03
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Andy P Zbinden :
i assume that will go the way of myths in some years. self-reprogramming will produce just this ability.
2024-09-26 08:13:10
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user447757387152 :
My guess is we inherit consciousness, just as we do the colour of our eyes or the size of out feet😁
2024-09-26 19:34:41
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Mastershifuxxx :
I thought you said Goebels for a minute there lol
2024-09-25 17:24:43
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EfektDomino :
Wonderful argument by the greatest mind of today
2024-09-25 16:16:17
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macedonas :
Good thinking Roger!
2024-09-25 10:42:50
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usmhot :
while the human mind clearly behaves according to rules that are different to (beyond) existing systems of formal mathematics, that doesn't mean its rules aren't represented by a formal system which itself is subject to the incompleteness theorem (note, Turing also proved incompleteness in algorithms).
2024-09-25 23:20:13
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Patrick :
It goes to the unconscious mind from an external environment that isn’t entirely materialistic perhaps.
2024-09-25 01:22:36
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Soul :
WoW
2024-09-26 12:31:07
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Christopher Prenderg :
I think he’s conflating our lack of understanding of intuition and some special conscious element.
2024-09-26 01:10:45
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ChrisUntold :
Great, now I think I’m incomplete.
2024-09-24 18:30:20
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SaulGoodman :
I thought it was that there are statements that cannot be proven true or false, not as you say true statements that cannot be proven?
2024-09-24 20:57:00
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mishko :
Thanks. Thats a book I need to read.
2024-09-24 12:45:30
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user5424828100314 :
Splendid.
2024-09-24 14:17:19
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Markos_vlassios :
👌👌👌
2024-09-25 11:36:34
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JVXN :
🔥🔥🔥🔥
2024-09-24 13:07:27
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Need More Boost :
Penrose is wrong, and has been for decades. His agenda is clear; to prove that consciousness is unique to humans. It’s an anthropocentric view that doesn’t stand in the modern day and age
2024-09-25 09:52:14
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bandit0800 :
universe is mechanical. no need to invent silly ideas. brain creates consciousness. no magic needed
2024-09-25 19:00:12
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CarterJami :
He’s a pro💯 I just got my algorithm resolved successfully by this expert 👉….. @IFTECHZ CYBER
2024-09-24 23:20:24
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