@commiespontex: If you don’t believe me, go and read the texts. Not just the Manifesto and Critique of the Gotha Programme, although the wording in Part 4 is vital, but The Poverty of Philosophy, The German Ideology, his letters, his Conspectus to Bakunin, his book to Carl Vogt etc etc and for goodness sake, Capital! #marxism #communism #karlmarx #leninism #stalin

꠹꠸ꪑ ꪑꪮ᥅᥅꠸ᦓꪮꪀ :

but Pendleton told me communism isn't stateless 😢 spontex bro you must be wrong

yuudai :

im reading state and revolution right now so i recognized that first part

NDang :

it is not the sun btw, he shines on his own

Sir4☭ :

"Between capitalist and communist society there lies the period of the revolutionary transformation of the one into the other. Corresponding to this is also a political transition period in which the state can be nothing but the revolutionary dictatorship of the proletariat." And "What we have to deal with here is a communist society, not as it has developed on its own foundations, but, on the contrary, just as it emerges from capitalist society; which is thus in every respect, economically, morally, and intellectually, still stamped with the birthmarks of the old society from whose womb it emerges." Corresponding to the transition between capitalist and communist society is a dictatorship of the proletariat. Marx says clearly that the lower phase is still imprinted by capitalist society. Because the lower phase retains these "birthmarks," it remains part of the transition out of capitalist society. Corresponding again to this revolutionary period which includes lower phase communist society, is a workers state. You cannot claim that society has ceased transitioning out of capitalism while it still retains the birthmarks of capitalist society that are in the process of being overcome. If those remnants are still being dissolved, then the transition remains ongoing. And if the dictatorship of the proletariat corresponds to that transition, then it corresponds to the lower phase of communism as well.

swcy6 :

disagree, but still interesting nonetheless.

🦭☭★Argumentrobbe★☭🦭 :

the state is its own subject not just a tool

The Class Conscious Individual :

The statement "communism is not stateless" is our way of emphasizing that we arent interested in directly abolishing the state, but using it to abolish class society, resulting in the state withering away itself. Remember that communism is the entire revolutionary movement. This is particularly important, because with these two facts, we can make distinctions between a communist revolution, and an anarchist one.

I Dislike Capitalism :

The withering away of the state is a consequence of the final form of communist society, not the definition of communism itself. This erasure ignores Marx, Engels and 99% of what communism is.

John Goy ☭ :

there's also the chance that they're mistaking "state" for "governance" or something

protiktoker247 :

but what if its the peoples state 👀👀

Spider man noir :

I struggle to find the motivation to read political texts any tips to make it more enjoyable

Kronstadt Black :

They just want to have a following while keeping their money - that’s it

Mocha_Creme :

Then wouldn't we want to get rid of the state to get rid of class division and class antagonisms?

jay :

hi goat it’s been a while i haven’t been on this app in a bit (also this is jay/greyxday)

finlay :

internetacccount :

New lighting. What a vibe!

Spect :

The closer you get to the screen the more frustration I can feel through it😭

𝐉Ⓐ𝐂𝐎𝐏𝐎☭ :

true

gun_devil :

in Lower Phase Communism, a society still has to contend with imperialism, right? how would this not necessitate a state?

𝓥𝓲𝓮𝓷𝓷𝓪𝓟𝓻𝓸𝓵𝓮𝓽 ☭ :

the state is not an instrument. it actively fights against the bourgeoisie.

🏜️🏜️🏜️🏜️🏜️🏜️🏜️🏜️🏜️ :

Have you ever watched Star Trek? In the fictional universe of Star Trek all national governments were abolished along with currency, poverty, and the class structure. They created a post-scarcity world after the arrival of the Vulcans. So what's the difference between communism and the fictional world government of Star Trek?

Lumpenmole rat :

So wait, it's a reification fallacy? The state is not a noun, it's the action of class conflict, so as the owning class disappears the state will briefly become inverted to a "dictatorship" if the proletariat, but this isn't a tangible thing you could point to, rather it's what occurs as a class disappears?

lu.o8 :

I actually cannot believe we’re having this conversation why don’t we all knows this

max :

Spontex how long does the dotp last?